<nettime> W/O(C) digest [geer, salucofagos]

["nettime's_counterimagineer" <nettime@bbs.thing.net>]

Re: Schijndel & Smiers: IMAGINING A WORLD WITHOUT COPYRIGHT 
     Benjamin Geer <benjamin.geer@gmail.com>
     salucofagos <tokyoanubis@yahoo.com>

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Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 01:03:34 +0000
From: Benjamin Geer <benjamin.geer@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Schijndel & Smiers: IMAGINING A WORLD WITHOUT COPYRIGHT (Modified by Geert Lovink)

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 14:02:04 +0200, z3118338@student.unsw.edu.au

<z3118338o@student.unsw.edu.au> wrote:

> the bad thing about all of this licence preoccupation is that in the end it is
> internalising control and law to a degree far greater thatn we ever imagined

If you can explain how we can dispense with halfway measures, and
immediately create a radically transformed social order in which all
ideas will belong to the commons, I'd like to hear your strategy.  In
the absence of such a strategy, what can we do but try to use existing
social norms (like copyright) in new ways (like copyleft), to begin
creating transitional forms of society that include some conditions
(like a substantial commons of ideas) that could be part of a better
world?

Schijndel and Smiers, in any case, clearly aren't envisaging a
different social order: they place all their faith in "free markets",
without seeming to realise that that's the very concept that got us
into this mess in the first place: the idea that people should be
"free" to buy and sell (and therefore to own) anything, even ideas,
even human beings.

Thinking about licences (which are really descriptions of acceptable
behaviour in human relations) can be one way of starting to think
about the norms that society should be based on.  All societies need
norms.  The constitutions of states are licences.  Refusing to think
about them doesn't make them go away, nor does it make them
unnecessary.

Ben

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Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 22:01:51 -0800 (PST)
From: salucofagos <tokyoanubis@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: <nettime> Schijndel & Smiers: IMAGINING A WORLD WITHOUT COPYRIGHT (Modified by Geert Lovink)

Why do I hear echoes of the old Benjamin argument,
originals and reproductions, in this piece? ^.~

It IS an interesting idea in many ways, but I don't
wonder if it would stifle community creativity?  Many
independent artists feel an illusion of safety with
the copyright law that if they share their work in a
community (be it the local coffee shop or an internet
community like deviantart.com) that their work is
protected.  This idea, it seems, undermines the
potentiality for such communities by saying anyone is
free to take off on what you've created after you've
released it.  It seems in the situation of a concert,
or of a movie maybe, on these big scales this is fine,
but on the small scale the independent artist exists
on, how is this any better than the current copyright?
 It seems to me that this is almost more problematic
as it creates fear between artists and breaks up
community .  

-Emily Connelly
  

--- Geert Lovink <geert@xs4all.nl> wrote:

> (posted to nettime with the permission of the authors. this proposal
> tries to get rid of lawyers altogether, including lessig.  the bad
> thing about creative commons: it's still a legal document and thus
> feeds the evergrowing hegemony of the global law apparatus.  /geert)
> 
> IMAGINING A WORLD WITHOUT COPYRIGHT
 <...>

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