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I'm sorry. I'm not very
active in nettime.
But I'm in Catalonia and I've seen
too many dangerously
"traditional" analysis in this list that I need
to intervene.
I'm
sorry I can't bring many
details yet (I'm trying
to find time to write but I'm too busy
with a very fast realtime
reality right now),
but I'll try at least to bring a change
of perspective to analyse the
situation.
I would like
to ask for more caution and respect for the people
fight.
To
bring some element to refocus your perspective I
like to remember that the 1st of October over 2
000 000 people, nor radical, nor corrupt, just people
from any age - I've seen teenagers and very old
people crying when they succeed to vote after
queening sin 5 in the morning to defend the
ballots-, from any ideological
side (and I really mean any) and even
wanting the independence or not, all together
fighting online and offline for
Democracy. Really. Catalonia is not about
independence. We are ready for a level of
democracy
that we are not allowed to practice and
the fight is about political
freedom.
When the analysis is
from above talking about
how bad are the bad guys from
both sides and how people have
no active opinion about that, it is not
reflecting the groving maturity
of spanish civil society ,
is avoiding the degree of self
organization acheived on the
1 of October in Catalunya and
trying to depict a symmetry
that could relax
us but that is just not real.
There is no symmetry. There is
[fast resum->] 1) repression
and a fascist state; 2) people
fighting in network having greatly
hacked institutions
that are now force in
some interesting
degrees to respond
to the people (of
course institution
are rotten - I don't
think
anyone
here can
imaging that
could be otherwise);
3) Podemos
fighting for
its own power
and abandoning
the people.
[little note about
corruption as
an example: the
difference between
Catalunya and Spain
is that while in Spain the
PP
(most currupt party) is
still massively voted,
in Catalunya
PdeCat have almost disappeared.
So not everywhere the
act
of voting is used in
the same
way. And the false equality
on the matter
of corruption
(of
course both
are corrupt, but in Catalonia we are wining in
the effort to
desmatel it and in Spain losing)
in
the discours
it is a
fallacy, one
of the many
that are
useful to
Podemos but
not to the
people fight]
The analysis via the
left respected
categories it is
helping Podemos
discours that it is not only
wrong in the field of the
analysis of reallity but
also , once more, destroying -
with paternalism and cooptate
imposing their
representativeness - the
transversal effort of the
people to create a
networked democracy that
control their institutions
and political parties.
I hope I can
be more specific soon.
If
you are interested, I
wrote some more here,
before the catalan
referendum:
https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/simona-levi/we-just-want-to-stop-pleading
Best,
Simona Levi
El 6/10/17 a las 19:08, chml escribió:
(excuse
my english) and the long mail
Hello...I'm ussually a lurker of this mail list, but as I live in
spain (bot I'm not spanish, born in southamerica) it's my
intention to add some ideas to the debate not to start a flame! :)
read this as you read an skeptical opinion and lot of this are in
the news...spanish or international
Reading international press, apart from few exceptions, it's like
reading Spanish press. Bullshit. But also there's a situation in
wich "nobody knows what is going to happend". Regarding this I
would like to tell some things that there's no present in the
mainstream media. I will split it in points to organize it better
and try to avoid argumentative chaos)
*) Both governments, Central and Catalonian, are deeply corrupt:
a) Central government is the most corrupt party in all Europe
(sic). And still in government (that tells you a few things about
the conservative mind en Spain, but more on this later). And as in
Spain there's not extreme-right significantly parties, so PP
involves a lot of right-wing voters with different approaches
(catholics, ultra-catholics and spanish-nationalist, liberals and
ultraliberals and mostly but not all of Franco's nostalgics) that
are separated in another countries, so their representation and
weight in politics is different (not less, different). Also, due
to the spanish transition those who holds the power, symbolic
capital and in a good proportion economic power are mostly the
same than in Franco's era.
b) Regarding Catalonian government two things:
b.1) At least one of the parties that run the government
coalition (Junts pel Si) is deeply flawed in corruption. At the
point that the need to refund the political party (with the same
corrupts inside, of course). This party was in government almost
times since Franco and represented, and still represents, the
right capitalist entrepreneurship bourgeois of Catalonia (you can
take a look at the Pujol family). This party never want the
independence, but they used that idea to exchange political
stances, mainly with right-wing governments. So they were always
"moderate catalanist". (I'm going to resume, excuse me)
This starts to change with Artur Mas government in the
generalitat. When he arrive imposes a lot of cuts and drastic
measures due to the economic crisis, this led them to several
riots (in one of them the mossos, catalonian police, took the eye
of a woman with a gum bullet (again, sorry for my english :)...
b.2) due to the first independence referendum and the
political crisis, in the next election according to the pools
there were going to loss the government. So they stated this joint
venture (Junts pel Si) with the support of ERC (Left republicans
of catalonia) and, outside the platform, CUP,
anti-capitalist...you can imagine that. So the only program was
independance. It's important to know, regarding this, that
according to pools never in the history of Catalonia, not once
until now, the "yes" would be a winning option.
*) In this situation, Independence was a weapon, for both
governments, to still alive at the end of the day. Puijdemont
asking for things and exacerbating the situation (it was his
mandate, obvious). And on the other hand, for Rajoy's government
two observations.
a) Regarding the spanish electoral system, there's a prevalence
for votes outside of big cities, so voting in Madrid, Barcelona or
Bilbao worth much less than voting in Segovia, for example. If we
take in consideration this and that in Spain there's a bunch (but
a bunch) of older people you see that PP voters are: old people
(+65 precisely) and not for the main capital cities (except Madrid
province, not the city). So Rajoy's voters don't want to know
nothing about and is in Rajoy's interest to present himself like
the "spanish value holder" because that gives him votes (a lot)
and almost guarantee their government stability.
b) (this argument is on the news) The right in spain...and I'm
tempted to say that also the left, the don't know about
wining...when you win you give something to the other part. They
only know to beat, to destroy the other. In this sense the catalan
government did know that the referendum was going to be a fail but
hey use it as a negotiation weapon (this, I think, it's deeply
irresponsible). This is not a matter of referendum yes or no, I
will you there soon. Is a matter of a government using people's
belif to exchange favors (Artur Mas itself admitted this, with
other words of course). Right now, today, the central government
pass a new law so companies can get out of catalonia real
quick...so well see what happends
So...let's say, this is like House of Cards, but real. It's
disgusting, but it is like this. This situation led to an
unprecedented polarization in wich (like in many other historical
events) those who are in the middle get punch for both sides
With all this, I will focus more on your email between lines.
El 06/10/17 a las 13:24, Patrice Riemens escribió:
Reading stuff in newspapers and others the
last few days I am getting increasingly shocked -
and worried, about what appears to be mainstream (media &
politics) opinion wrt the 'events'
in Catalonia.
What do you expect? They are media conglomerates! ;)
It boils down to something like 'Catalonians are nationalistic
fools, what they do is ramp illegal,
Spain's unity should be upheld and respected, Rajoy and state
forces act fully inside the
constitution and legality' etc.
The second part it's true, Rajoy and friends are acting inside the
constitution and the law. And that's the problem, that he is ONLY
acting inside the law and constitution when the situation and,
most of all, his position demands that he do politics. But again,
the way of doing politics for Rajoy is via the judges...because
that's what is keeping him in "alive".
And the media...well, they are in most cases following the trends.
EU stands aside, while European leaders fall over each other to
support the Rajoy regime -
with sole exception Belgium's Michel, who's probably got 'his
ears cleaned out' (Dutch loc)
by now ...
Obvious...the EU condems the police brutality but says that is an
internal problem and should be solved with the constitutional
law...IF the EU gets involved, think what would happend with
Córcega, Euskadi, Baviera, Belgium (that why Michel talks!,
Scotland again...and the ones I', forgetting).So...personally, I
hope they get involved, because I think that the EU is a fail like
this, Spain needs a new constitution that leaves behind Franco a
all the dictatorship past and catalonian people deserve to vote a
referendum. But again...at least if in Spain we don't have an old
people gonocide, i doubt this would happen. Also, hope I'm wrong
The insane brutality of the Spanish police
is papered over, just as is the political
steering of the 'independent' justice, but far worse, 3
centuries of oppression, culminating
in 40 years of ultra-Castillian Franquist oppression, which
almost wipped out above ground
Catalan language and culture, and finds its thinly veiled
admirators in Rajoy's Partido
Popular, are all completely forgotten.
Yes, but not only catalan! Basque people, Murcian people...in
Spain there's a lot more than the "catalan-radicals" wich, under
my humble opinion they are not the "most" rebel in spain, sorry.
In Murcia for example the PP governs, but those people have a long
anarchist tradition. Franco¡'s regime not only wiped out
catalanist...they wiped out half spain and in concrete parts, more
(in Euskadi, but also in Madrid and Galicia). So for internal
distribution that makes less difference that outside perhaps. With
this I'm not saying that there's no catalan singularity, I'm
saying that there's not the only one for sure.
And never mind millions of Catalans braving extreme odds to
exercise what is the most
fundamental democratic right: to vote and be counted. But does
the mainstream care for
democracy any longer?
Yes and this is another lesson that we have learned I think. In
first place the most iconic moment for democracy is voting and the
media don't cover that well. That's (in my view) because we are
not in democracies anymore since long time ago. And on the other
hand, honestly, this referendum idea was not executed in good
ways. finnally, voting for what you want, when you want and
wathever you want is not a democratic right in contemporary
democracies...I don't now none that says that ;)
With a mainstream like that, who needs extremists and terrorists
for the descent into the
unknown? And if Madrid indeed pulls out the 'nuclear option',
Article 155 of the Spanish
Constitution: total take over over Catalonia - and Madrid is on
the verge of doing so, I´d
say: pack up for the beach - or Barcelona.
Please, don't say Madrid...there a bunch of people in Madrid who
fight with catalonian people, wants changes and support the
referendum!
Finally...if you reach that point I would ask a question:
Don't you miss, in all this, material politics? let's
say...instead of "transversal", "cultural" and "indentitarian"
politics. Some really left and material politics to improve people
lives and wealth?. Because I can tell you that this is a "must"
not only in Catalonia, and if they get their independence in this
way, they are going to be (unfortunately) economically really
fucked up.
Cheers all the same from Christiania, bit
of a weird place in this context.
Cheers from a Madrid citizen staying in Ankara!
and yes...would love to be there!
p+2D!
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