Michael Guggenheim on Fri, 23 Aug 2019 14:09:23 +0200 (CEST)


[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

Re: <nettime> from Meatloaf to penalty Shoot Outs

I beg to disagree, and I would love to invite you to a trip to Switzerland, where indeed referenda are held 4 times a year on all kinds of things, from deciding whether to build a new school or (infamously) whether to ban minarets. Sometimes you and I may agree or disagree with an outcome, but the last time I checked, overall policy decisions in Switzerland were no better or worse (according to my parochial judgment) than those of any other European country without regular referenda.


When I last checked (a week ago), Switzerland was not "frighteningly fascistic". In fact, it is the opposite. A simple reason is that if people are asked in referenda repeatedly, they learn how to act in referenda (including the fact that the state develops complex techniques for administering them, that overcome the beginner mistakes of the Brexit referendum (was it advisory or not? What were the options exactly? etc.). Most importantly, they do get engaged in the relevant questions and are much better informed about issues. They also have the possibility to decide case by case whether they agree with a certain policy, rather than being forced to vote for a party with which they may agree in some issues bit disagree in others.

(Also ask yourself: Are MPs better informed and do they make better arguments than random people on the street? Answer: They do not, for the simple reason that they are not trained to be policy makers).


best

Michael




On 23/08/2019 11:28, Sean Cubitt wrote:

John writes:


Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 08:48:41 -0700
From: John Preston <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: <nettime> From Meat Loaf to Penalty Shoot Outs
Message-ID: [email protected]"><[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8


Technological development puts pressure on social institutions. We need
a system of governance which encourages rapid iteration and mass
participation, two features lacking in our current democracies.

the problem is that referendums are not a viable alternative - partly for the reasons David gives: abandonment of evidence, argument or - I'd add - a commitment to the good life for all.

Judiciously timed, a referendum on restoring the death penalty would succeed in any European country. So would bans on abortion, gay marriage, modest dress for Muslim women, immigration, and very probably heavy metal 

There is surely an arrogance in expertise, and a we-know-best among professional politicos. But to exchange that for constant (and compulsory?) opinion polling wouldn't change the new problem which is exactly that: ubiquitous real-time comment IS government by opinion poll, and it is frighteningly fascistic. The new national-populisms rely on just such technological by-passes because they know they do not construct the public but a plurality of publics, each of which can be triggered by the right (usually negative) stimulus - this is the whole strategy of social media marketing in the US, UK and across Europe. 

Sadly - since it requires far more work - the political solutions are the only response to political problems. Yes, any politics in the 21st century must be mediated, and media techniques and technologies impact politics just as politics impact on technologies and techniques. 

The challenge is to build political media that are in service of the good of all - including non-humans -- a medium that allows the Amazon a voice, that could be interesting . . . .

Sean

#  distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
#  <nettime>  is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
#  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: [email protected]
#  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
-- 
----------------------------------

Michael Guggenheim
17 Popham Street
N1 8QW London
UK
#  distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
#  <nettime>  is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
#  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: [email protected]
#  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: