<nettime> Re: Pop Musik (Hartmann vs. Btmen)

[nettime maillist <nettime@basis.Desk.nl>]

Message-ID: <34C082FC.189AA500@fsf.adis.at>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:07:57 +0100
From: Frank Hartmann <hartmann@fsf.adis.at>
Reply-To: hartmann@fsf.adis.at
Organization: Forum Sozialforschung
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Molnar Daniel <b2men@biocom.bio.u-szeged.hu>
CC: nettime-l@Desk.nl
Subject: Re: <nettime> Pop Muzik
References: <Pine.GSO.3.95.980104223420.8665A-100000@biocom>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Molnar Daniel wrote:

> Pop Muzik - how did sampling technology
> affected contemporary popular muzik

Reading this, I asked myself:
How could this middle class white boy blues be cured?

The [formerly eastern] Europeans fascination for white mainstream
culture trash always is striking. Next thing we hear is that Frank Sinatra
The [formerly eastern] Europeans fascination for white mainstream
culture trash always is striking. Next thing we hear is that Frank Sinatra
invented RAP. I would like to remind you that Jamaican DJs did a lot
more to contemporary sound than bombastic ELPs electronic keyboard.

Now if we want to dig into the roots of contemporary pop, its sampling of
songs, and the use of technology, we have to consider the DUB tradition
originating in Jamaica, which affected the whole music industry in the
late 60s - eg, U ROYs "Wake the town" is one of the first deejay versions
of a pop song which made the top charts. Buildung animistic relationsships
to the machine, LEE 'Scratch' PERRY is another early example of technology
(ab)use for creating a "new folk music". I think it was on <nettime> that
Erik Davis published his "ROOTS AND WIRES": POLYRHYTHMIC CYBERSPACE AND
THE BLACK ELECTRONIC
 http://www.levity.com/figment/index.html

Read it, and while BUJU BANTON definitely is too much for beginners,

Read it, and while BUJU BANTON definitely is too much for beginners,
then maybe play DUB MELTDOWN by Bill Lasswell/Stylie Scott while doing so.

~Frank


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:55:39 +0100 (MET)
From: Molnar Daniel <b2men@biocom.bio.u-szeged.hu>
X-Sender: b2men@biocom
To: nettime-l@Desk.nl
Subject: Re: <nettime> Pop Muzik (fwd)
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.95.980117184511.10036C-100000@biocom>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


> Reading this, I asked myself:
> How could this middle class white boy blues be cured?

as you seem to be totally misunderstand my point of and unterstood very
well at the same time, I have to say that you cannot cure this blues, as
its not mine, but of a whole generation around the world. I have not
stated that the midclas whiboy point is mine and ultimate. I would like to
warn about it, as it is spreading very well. nice memetic construction

> The [formerly eastern] Europeans fascination for white mainstream
> culture trash always is striking. Next thing we hear is that Frank
> Sinatra invented RAP. I would like to remind you that Jamaican DJs did a
> lot more to contemporary sound than bombastic ELPs electronic keyboard.

sure. but this 'formerly eastern european' slogan sounds to me too WIRED
sure. but this 'formerly eastern european' slogan sounds to me too WIRED
and snobbish at the same time. man, ivory towers of music know-how and
historic archives overloaded are not for the people on the streets, not
for the ones on London's and happen to be Jamaican for example

> Now if we want to dig into the roots of contemporary pop, its sampling
> of songs, and the use of technology, we have to consider the DUB
> tradition originating in Jamaica, which affected the whole music
> industry in the late 60s - eg, U ROYs "Wake the town" is one of the
> first deejay versions of a pop song which made the top charts. Buildung
> animistic relationsships to
> the machine, LEE 'Scratch' PERRY is another early example of
> technology (ab)use for creating a "new folk music".

sure again. but please recognise, as you hadn't, that I am speaking that
midcla whiboy blues for analysing purposes. the guys who are into this
music, who are trying to do this music are not aware and do not want to be
aware of this historic views. i know the dubbers and i know Lee Scratch
music, who are trying to do this music are not aware and do not want to be
aware of this historic views. i know the dubbers and i know Lee Scratch
Perry, but i am not interested in them in this way of thinking. i want to
know why _does_ this midcla whiboy stuph work? i am aware of the Armand
Van Helden and Todd Terry phenomenon.

> Read it, and while BUJU BANTON definitely is too much for beginners,
> then maybe play DUB MELTDOWN by Bill Lasswell/Stylie Scott while doing
> so.

dear Frank, this sentence would be a nice starting for a flame on a
heavier, much reallife list than this. thank you for your advice I think I
can handle my listening list for dub music

cj.b2men w/ best as a newB

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

---
#  distributed via nettime-l : no commercial use without permission
#  <nettime> is a closed moderated mailinglist for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: majordomo@icf.de and "info nettime" in the msg body
#  URL: http://www.desk.nl/~nettime/  contact: nettime-owner@icf.de