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[Orig To: [email protected] and [email protected]. Please think about passing on 'overheard snippets' of conversations if or when they seem appropriate for nettime. The net, after all, is as much as an environment as it is a distribution medium, n'est pas? --tb] At 12:25 PM -0800 12/28/98, Nino Rodriguez wrote: > From: Nino Rodriguez <[email protected]> > > My intuition is that the only antidote for narrative is simultaneity -- > a multitude of things not in a list, not in a space, but simply > co-existing, interpenetrating, happening all at once, somewhere but > nowhere. > > The only problem is, how is it possible for our minds to deal with such > an entity? But Nino, that's just it. Our minds are dealing with 'such an entity' every moment--including this one. Our senses are constantly bombarded by a seamless field of energies which, as sorted and organized by the mind, appear to us as 'our experience of living'--not to mention 'our sense of self'. This self/world *is* a narrative. "*I* am a story I tell myself." It doesn't matter whether we're talking about a sense of orientation in space, or a sense of orientation in time, or, for that matter, a sense of orientation in society--or a sense of orientation in the didactics of denotational and operational semantics. It appears that even when the mind is subject to experiences that fall outside the social/self generated and narratively limited range considered 'what is real and/or possible', the experience is given an interpretation and identification as (in some sense of the word) 'real'--regardless of how fanciful this interpretation and identification may be from the perspective of the narrative norm. Thus 'Visitations of the Virgin Mary' and 'Encounters of the First Kind' exhibit remarkably similar phenomenology (and may, in fact, be representations of an identical supra-noumenal event for which we have no socially agreed upon explanation) even though their respective identifications and descriptions arise from two quite different epsitemologies. Similarly, we experience our dreams as 'real' even though their 'reality' remains ambiguous. That is, we may not know what dreams are, but, generally speaking, to the extent that they are subjectively experienced psychic events, our social norm concludes that they are real. The dream state can be measured and recorded although the dream 'content' can not. One thing we can say about dreams, however, is that all dream content, however fantastical, is a subjectively real 'self/world' experience, subjectively indistinguishable from waking consciousness. (Lucid Dreaming *may* be a special case but at this point there is no agreement that such a state even exists, so I'll not digress.) Ultimately ALL events are psychic events. This is not to say there is no source of energy external to the body (noumena); only that the experience *as* experience is psychic in nature. The light that physicists study, for example, is invisible--it is not the light we 'see'. The 'shine' of visible light is a combination of light energy in its noumenal form interacting with a living neurostructure. One could very easily say that this neurostructure is itself a kind of narrative--a pattern of dynamic and self replicating meaningful relationships (the very definition of a living body). Thus, not only does a tree not make any sound when it falls in the forest if there is no one there to hear it, without some kind of 'observer' there is neither tree nor forest, much less 'falling' or 'sound'. What I can't understand is why on Earth, outside of a Zen monistary, anyone would be searching for an 'antidote' to narrative in the first place? Sounds like a bunch of post-modern deconstructivist rhetoric to me. Narrative is more fundamental than breathing; if you COULD suspend it, even for a second, YOU, as a self/world experience, would cease to exist. After the fact, to the extent that you could recall anything of this novel not/self state, this recollection would itself be a narrative fiction seemlessly (intentional) integrated into the narrative fiction of the self. Mike Wells [email protected] --- # distributed via nettime-l : no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a closed moderated mailinglist for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [email protected] and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # URL: http://www.desk.nl/~nettime/ contact: [email protected]